Care Leavers' Association

I would like to give you my thoughts on the Australia's government response and formal apology to Forgotten Australians the former children in care in the past century.
The sorry speech needed to be said for those survivors for the pain and suffering the dreadful abuse endured by vulnerable children whilst under the care of the different organizations and residential settings.
My heart went out to all those care leavers what ever decade residing in the care system.
And it was very evident as we listened to the television coverage the extent of the various cruel brutal treatments given out to some of the children, beyond comprehension that adults should be capable of these actions.

On Monday 16th Nov in Canberra both the Prime Minister Mr Kevin Rudd and Mr Malcolm Turnbull delivered their speeches with respect and compassion, it was very moving emotionally and powerful, especially the brief care leavers stories circumstances while placed in care removed from families.
And the description of how little they received the human touch or responses in some environments just a number so horrendous and appalling unthinkable .
You can listen and see both leaders addresses in full on the ABC news link it well worth reflecting as I realize some care leavers in the UK will have similar experiences / memories of childhoods spent in the care system.

Regarding the British Prime Ministers Mr Gordon Browns forthcoming formal apology early next year 2010 .
I acknowledge the child migrants sent over seas rightly deserve the apology and redress is long over due.
I wish to plead to the British Government to be inclusive for all children in care for that period of history of the UK we too need to hear the those words. That being raised within the care system in UK was not always a safe place abuse did happen. Our childhoods matter too, injustices and grave child abuse happened to some children .
The Australian government got it right it has not discriminated dealt sensitively with such dignity ensuring that all care leavers were included in the formal public apology..
The redress scheme in Australia has several services for the care leavers which may assist help ease the pain. The one which I think very encouraging from an historical point of view. Care leavers will have the opportunity to record written or oral stories so as a society we shall never forgot learn from the mistakes . These will be stored in the National Library.
I would like the same possibility for our recorded personal journeys to be told and stored for future generations also for UK care leavers. Why because my childhood records files both residential and social workers field file have been destroyed lost status.
A entire documented personal history of a child's journey from a few weeks old to 16 years old has been lost .
for ever.
It not really a life time ago I am younger than Mr Brown. I was in care of a local authority in England 1957-73. just had very different backgrounds and upbringings.
What are others thoughts? Will the formal apology recognize every child abused in care during the 20th century? I see the CLA is advocating this that Mr Gordon Brown say sorry to all children who have been abused in care.

It is for the former children from which ever Care Home where they as Children they were abused in-care to decide. It is not appropriate for others including those in CLA who were not abused in such Care Homes to claim or purport to represent such abuse individuals as this is simply misrepresentation and false.

Where the CLA can effect change it should seek the views and opinions of all such abuse Victims, formerly in-care in Scotland, Openly and Transparently. Those who were not abused in-care in Scotland should not decide the fate or the processes that those individuals abused may seek and or require in such processes as Acknowledgement and Accountabilty, Scotland. Many former children have the capacity to represent thier own issues including former children abused in Quarriers Homes.
The issues of those abused are not the issues for those who's experience in-care was the the opposite to being abused systematically on a daily basis.

While we all respect each other as former children in-care. The CLA should also respect the Right of others to represent themselves.

David Whelan
Former Boys and Girls Abused in Quarriers Homes

Apologies are acceptable in such situations, provided they are meaningful, genuine and the majority of the True Victims of abuse accept such an apology. If it is just a political apology then really what substance does such an apology have. If it comes with Reparation, Acknowledgement and Accountibility as part of a process then perhaps it has more meaning at the end of a process of Reconcillation and forgiveness.

Apologies given personnally and collectively by the organisations and Government as occured in Ireland have more meaning when backed up by deeds and actions of investigation, acknowledgement and accountibility.

The Apology given by Jack McConnell in the Scottish Parliament 2004 turned out to be meaningless and worthless when the apology was challenged in the Courts, as an acceptance that abuse occured. It turned out not to be the case.

David

I was raised in Quarrier's Homes from 1946 until 1957 and was a victim of physical and mental abuse.

I'm all for governments taking responsibility for actions they were complicit in when they either turned away from, or assisted in, 'immigrating' these children but this is a completely separate issue from that of children abused while in care in the United Kingdom, whether sexually, physically or mentally. I'm afraid that this idea of including all situations together in a blanket apology will dilute the severity of the institutional abuse that has yet to be recognised by some of the institutions or charties involved. For the care leavers who were abused, (I speak to those raised in Quarrier's Homes particularly) it's imperative that we not let down our guard and allow what happened to us to be swept aside in this sudden deluge of concern for those poor, vulnerable children who were ignored for decades.

Don't let an apology that may be given more to assuage the collective conscience than render succour to those whose lives were impacted distract from the larger issue - Historic Institutional Abuse of children in-care.

Thanks for allowing voices to be heard.

Chris Miller
Member of Former Boys and Girls Abused of Quarrier's Homes

David,
I have read both your postings with interest.
I understand your comments in the second post apologies to victims of historical abuse it spot on. I however I do need some clarification.
From your first post research concerning in Scotland Quarries Homes, I having some difficulty in grasping fully what your trying to say? Due to my lack of personal knowledge? Is it possible to put in more simple language for people like myself to comprehend/ understand better? In the first pharagrph What was not appropriate
Especially to regards to CLA involvement? I thought the Care Leavers have an advocacy role to represent all care leavers issues. Abused or not?.
Quote.
The issues of those the abused are not issues for those who experience in care life was the opposite of being abused of systematically on a daily basis.
I would like to reflect more explore on this comment , therefore I would appreciate if you could be kind enough to further explain so that I may gain insights on the deeper level .
Thanks Elizabeth

Dear Elizabeth,

It is for those children abused in the former institutions such as Quarriers Homes to decide what will be accptable to them individually and collectively including what processes and what ahape and forms this will take, only them.

The Question for me is. Where were the CLA committee all those years ago when the Quarriers Homes True victims of abuse who had been through the Scottish Courts and had proven they had been abused and were being attacked by the abusers and their supporters in attempts to destroy our personal honestry and integrity and silence our Voices including on National TV (BBC Frontline Scotland 2003). The Quarriers Homes abuse victims have been campaigning for years and yet no support indirectly or directly from the CLA in any shape or form.

It is disengenious, misleading and false representation to us for those individuals who were not abused, nor having been in Quarriers Homes past care to claim these abuse issues as their issues. We also never elected such individuals to represent us. Yet they now somehow claim to represent the historical abuse issues and the VICTIMS in the Scottish abuse issues.

We have always recognised that many former children's experience in-care was a positive one including in those in the CLA and many in Quarriers Homes. There were many decent carers also in Quarriers Homes. We recognise fully also there may be issues pertaining to the former children behaviour while in care.

Closure, Forgiveness and Reconcilliation can only be between those Victims who chose to do so and the perpetrators and past organisations. It will only be achieved by negotiation directly with the Victims and the former institutions or Scottish Government in an independent acceptable process, which upholds the integrity and honesty of all those who were abused and rejects those former children who have made false allegations. While the rules of natural justice and the Rights of All including those accused are upheld in such process.

The CLA should support the Quarriers victims demand for a full Judicial Inquiry into a care home where 8 ex-employees where convicted in the scottish Courts. Whereby collectively as former children we achieve a JUST outcome for all those abused in-care.

Elizabeth, The historical abuse issues are complex but not unresolvable just such look at what Ireland achieved by being open and transparent and fully recognising its Victims.

Regards David

I just wanted to make clear that the CLA has never claimed to represent the abuse survivors in Quarriers Homes. Nor has it ever claimed to represent scottish abuse survivors more generally. Nor would we ever do so. That would clearly be wrong.

All we are doing is conducting a piece of research in Scotland, along with the Scottish Institute of Residential Childcare, on behalf of the Scottish Human Rights Commission. That research, which had to be completed within three months, involves interviewing 10 Scottish abuse survivors and doing an email questionnaire with at least 170 Scottish care leavers and making sure their views are taken into account in how the 'Acknowledgement and Accountability Forum' is set up and run. This includes care leavers from institutions all over Scotland (a total of 45 different homes, including Quarriers) and even those who are now living outside Scotland. It is the most extensive survey of Scottish care leavers ever conducted, to our knowledge. It will help to ensure that the Forum is informed by the views of as wide a range of survivors and care leavers from Scotland as possible.

Dear Jim,

I appreciate fully about what you say that the CLA has never claimed to represent the abuse survivors in Quarriers Homes. Wth all due respect, Jim, I am not going to debate or argue the merits or otherwise of the Research being currently undertaken with regards those who were abused in Scottish care homes and those who were not abused on the CLA website.

Wholly independent opinions have been given and sought about the methodology and the Reseach process being proposed or undertaken with regards Scotland concerning these particular historical abuse issues which are clearly at variance with the view being put forward here. We will be address the whole Research issues and process in due course.

Jim, I want to assure you FBGA and I have no axe to grind with the CLA. We only seek a process that upholds the Rights of all and has natural justice and integrity at the forefront of all the processes even for those accused by former children. The processes should be fully open, transparent to public scrutiny. While investigating, scrutinising and validating all the allegations and claims of abuse and the denials of such claims and the past organisations. The Kaufman report of Nova Scotia is a stark reminder to all what can happen by a flawed process when you put all True Victims and survivors in a process only for some former children to make false claims and allegations of abuse, which in turn tarnish and destroy the honesty and integrity of all those True Victims including those who have gone through a Court process and who are telling the TRUTH!

I appreciate fully that the CLA has allowed me and others from Quarriers Homes onto the CLA site to debate the some of the issues here openly and transparently.

I wish you a nice weekend.

Regards David

Hello All,

It is certainly very clear that we are all keen and passionate about working towards a just system. I'm glad that the CLA and others have had input into many of the discussions that have taken place all over the world on this issue. This blogging space also welcomes the wide variety of voices and experiences that are out there. It is good to hear from others and the different experiences that people have had of the care system; both positive and negative.

As David says hope you all enjoy your weekend. It feels like it's never long enough.

best,

Zachari

Here is the Australian Care Leavers web site http://www.clan.org.au/

This website is brilliant with valuable comments from care leavers it highlights many aspects issues for former children brought up within the care system.
Their stories reflections first hand accounts of abused care leavers speak for themselves all very powerful messages that society needs to hear.
Some states in Australia have a redress scheme package my recall over the years Queensland Tasmania and Western Australian. Much more information is on the site well worth taking a look.
The members of CLAN Care leavers Australia Have put in tremendous amount of dedicated work over a decade and rightly deserve to be congratulated .

Thanks for your reply David regarding Scotland and your thoughtful reply .Must confess I cannot grasp all what you said.
I still remain committed to my personal opinion why I would like to hear the British PM Gordon Brown Apologize to all children abused in care living in the UK during the past century for me it would validate my childhood.
This is the childhood I only knew and belonged to the care system of the county's local care authority where I resided..
It was impressed on to us we belonged to them every decision made concerning our welfare. Also the staff said the home office made the very important decisions, is this not a government department?.

Hi:

For those interested in the story of the chidren who were 'immigrated' to Australia, a very good book to read is "Empty Cradles" by Margaret Humphreys. She did wonderful work, along with her associates, in bringing the plight of these now middle-aged people into the public eye. The book itself reads like a whodunnit as she tried to unravel the family histories of those people. It will break your heart and make one wish for a true accounting of the abuse suffered by children in care in Scotland. There is the Anna Magnussun book, The Village, but it's part of Quarrier's PR campaign, so not a true accounting.

Chris

Dear Elizabeth,

I appreciate that you may not have fully grasped the issues I am highlighting here. I am happy to answer any questions or queries you have concerning my comments about the historical abuse issues with regards Scotland and Quarriers Homes.

David

GORDON'S NOT THE PM TO BLAME ON HIS PRESENT WATCH WHEN IT HAPPENED WITH ANOTHER PM IN No 10 YONKS AGO...

Methinks, it was a Conservative Primeminister's government who should get the political stick!

Hello Everyone:

Hope you are all getting ready for a Merry Christmas!

A note of interest for those members who were abused while in care, especially for those abused while in Quarriers Homes. FBGA have chosen The Big Issue, a Charity dedicated to promoting practical solutions to helping vulnerable adults and others who's voices are the least heard in today's society, for its 1st UK wide Press Release. Following the release of the Open Letter, the House Magazine, The Parliamentary Weekly, asked if FBGA would wish to have it published in the December 7, 2009, issue of the magazine and FBGA was more than happy to agree. Subsequent to that, FBGA was asked if they could compose a 1,000 word briefing paper to be included in The House of Commons Briefing Sector Magazine, December issue. The briefing paper was accepted and appears in the December issue. Both can be seen on the FBGA web site http://www.fbga.co.uk/

This is very exciting and a huge step for FBGA in their pursuit of a Full Public Inquiry into the Historic Abuse in Quarriers Homes and other institutions and for every person who was abused while in care in Scotland. The louder the voice of FBGA, the more hope there is that children today will be treated in a more humane manner. Changes in personnel at institutions or changes in government does not relieve them of responsibility for what happened to children in their care. The effects of abuse do not end when governments change.

I wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and a Happy, Prosperous New Year.

Chris

I'm sorry...I should have said that when you access the website, click on HOT and that will take you to the Open Letter and Briefing Paper.

Chris

I know that some care-leavers may be confused by Mike Shelton's description of our work on Jersey and of the CLA more generally. They deserve a response. I write in a personal capacity. As a member of the CLA Executive Committee who has been to Jersey at least a dozen times in the past two years, I speak from experience. We have been trying, throughout that time, to help Jersey care leavers to secure justice. I will try to make this response to Mike's points as brief as possible:

1) Mike claims that the CLA has been "setting up a front organisation the Jersey Care Leavers Association (JCLA), and putting in situ malleable, passive individuals whereby the current CLA Executive have total control over the direct affairs of such organisations and individuals." This is simply untrue. The only reason that we have been able to work with the JCLA for so long is that we are amongst the few people who do NOT tell them what to do.

However, I am more concerned with Mike's insulting view of hard-working Jersey care leavers who have done their utmost to support other care leavers on Jersey since April 2008. If I had insulted such fellow care leavers in this way on a public blog I would feel deeply ashamed of myself.

2) In using the language of "true victim survivors" Mike is adopting the terminology used by David Whelan. Perhaps Mike is not aware of what David means by the concept of "true victim survivors". David's view, expressed elsewhere, is that "true victim survivors" are those who have managed to secure a conviction for their abuser in a court of law. In other words, the concept excludes the rest of us; the vast majority of care system abuse survivors whose abusers have never been prosecuted, let alone convicted.

3) The CLA membership is the largest it has ever been and is steadily growing (it is has been well into triple figures for a long time now). We make a clear distinction between 'Careleaversreunited' members and CLA members who have chosen to be so. However, we regularly consult with both the over 5,000 members of the reunited section of our site and our signed-up members. This makes us the largest network of care leavers in the UK and probably in the world.

4) Mike asserts, in relation to Jersey, "that the current CLA Executive is utterly despised by the majority of victims". He provides no evidence for this. I have met many care leavers on Jersey in last two years. Some support what the JCLA, with our assistance, have been doing, others oppose it, others are somewhere in the middle, others choose not to be involved because they are alienated by the confrontation that has taken place at recent meetings and, finally, others have never become involved. Those are the known facts. Anything else is guesswork. By the way, such differences of view are nothing new. They have occurred in other countries dealing with such an emotional topic as past abuse in the care system.

5) Mike's claims of betrayal are nothing new, either. I and others have had to endure a number of them during the last few years. The concerns that he put to us were put on the agenda for discussion at two meetings of the Executive Committee which Mike failed to attend. Then he resigned.

6) There have been, and will be, no 'backroom deals'. The JCLA have regularly kept their members informed of what is going on.

7) Mike notes that: "I cannot contribute to the so-called Blog since they control every aspect of communication and are not permitting open and transparent debate on the issues." There was a delay due partly to Christmas and partly to a technical problem which we think was at Mike's end. However, the fact that we have allowed even such a dishonest and insulting contribution as his onto our blog disproves his claim.

8) "The CLA frequently introduces the phoney equation of 'positive and negative' experiences of and in the care system, or of individual carers, in order that the so-called positive negates the supposed negativism of true victim survivors." Again, this is simply untrue. However, The CLA is more than happy to acknowledge that many care leavers have had very positive experiences in the care system. We warmly welcome such members, just as we welcome those who have suffered whilst in care. This acceptance has never affected our view that past abuse that took place in the care system needs to be addressed.

Finally, I would encourage you all to check out the Jersey stories on our website and make up your own minds about what has been going on and the CLA role in it.

Jim Goddard

Quote:
"Finally, I would encourage you all to check out the Jersey stories on our website and make up your own minds about what has been going on and the CLA role in it. "

Also check out:
http://www.fbga.co.uk
and look under 'HOT'

Hi Michael,

Jim Goddard should actually read the Kaufman Report, 2002, that is where the terminology "True Victim Survivors" that David Whelan and FBGA use came from as the Right Honourable, Fred Kaufman, C.M., Q.C., recognised the issues that when he investigated false allegations and abuse claims concerning those claiming to have been abused in care yet lied. Ex-employees also claimed that it did not occur and they did not do it. which was upheld in the report.

Kaufman had to distinguish between those who had been through the Courts and those who had not. True Victim survivors are fully inclusive for FBGA, The issue for us is a proper fully accountable process which protects the "Rights" of all including those accused. Perhaps Jim Goddard should read our recent House of Commons, sector, submission to really understand what FBGA and I call for publicly instead of trying to distort our Aims and Objectives. I quote the heading from the said document:

"FBGA, call for Justice, Accountability, Acknowledgement, Restitution, and Reparation for all True Victim-survivors of past crimes committed against children in former institutions in Scotland".


Many others over the years have misrepresented FBGA's views and position including David Whelan's personal position and views, and opinions, including the BBC Frontline Scotland in 2003.

Jim Goddard can try all he likes to undermine and discredit and distort the views and position all he likes of David Whelan,and FBGA, many others have tried in the past and not succeeded. It is all in the public domain FBGA and I do not hide what we want or claim!

Perhaps the CLA and its Executive should now call for what FBGA and I call for publicly and unequivocally for all Historical abuse True Victim-Survivors in Scotland and everywhere else including in Jersey!

I say to the CLA, open your accounts and your organisation and membership and details, including figures to full public scrutiny and have the claims audited and verified independently, including what constitutes a CLA member. As its a continual movable object. Phil Frampton has said it clearly and publicly concerning the CLA Executive role in Jersey, and how the current CLA Executive have treated and not respected fellow care leavers and decent Activists within CLA. Is Jim Goddard calling Phil Frampton a LIAR!

FBGA and David Whelan, have given a full Right of Reply to the CLA Executive on the recent and past issues concerning Jersey and the CLA Executive involvement and claims. We still await there response.

Michael you have my full permission and consent to provide this response to whoever you wish.

Yours Sincerely
David Whelan
FBGA

How sad that men can put so much negative energy into conflict .
Mike Shelton - why not get on and create an organization to do justice to your beliefs, why waste time, there must be plenty who share your views? organize and create a vehicle to do the work which you believe is needed.
Why be so wordy, crack on and make a difference,
other men are out there , i can think of quite a few.
Be the change you want to see.
Its so easy to snipe and dig , its a little tougher to grasp the nettle and be an agent for good.

I have read the Kaufman Report. I understand the issues Kaufman raises.

I apologise if I have misunderstood David Whelan's position on True Victim Survivors. However, his language is often ambiguous and I am not the only person who has read his various emails and pronouncements and come away with the impression that he continually privileges those who have been through the court process and practically encourages suspicion of those who have not. He appears to create a hierarchy in which experience of the courts system and getting a conviction creates a special status amongst abuse victims. I will give you a couple of samples of how he discusses the subject of True Victim Survivors in emails addressed to the research team that produced the report for the SHRC:

"Serious historical abuse allegations and claims made by individuals which have not been through any due process to-date, raise fundamental issues concerning the rules of natural justice and Rights, in our view for ALL including those accused of such serious crimes and those alleging such abuse and those who were abused in the past care system.

As a group of True Victim Survivors, who have been through the Courts whereby our claims of abuse were upheld. We believe that any Forum set-up in Scotland in the future or envisaged, will have to take into consideration, these issues and other such issues to ensure the rules of natural justice prevail for ALL including those accused and those abused and individuals making such historical abuse allegations."(Email 20th October 2009).

"Is this advisory group fully inclusive of a broad spectrum of representaion of the True Victims and Survivors abused in-care and those alleging they were abused in care in Scotland?" (Email, 2nd November 2009)

I would suggest that David should think about the way in which he uses the logic of the Kaufman report to continually cast suspicion on care leavers who have not been through the courts but who are still prepared to stand up in public to say that they were abused in care. It is often hard for them to do so

Hello,

It is great to see that the blog is being used and we hope that people will continue to add to other discussions on the site. As an administrator of the blog i feel that the tone of this discussion has become inappropriate and unhelpful. As such this discussion is now closed. I would encourage everyone to explore the CLA website and find out more about the work that we do. Please get in touch if you have any comments or questions.

All the best,

Zachari